Rear Main Seal Shot

Discussion:

Rear Main Seal Shot

(too old to reply)

Neil

2008-12-27 17:52:53 UTC

My son has a VW Golf that's about 15+ years old. He took it in for an oil
change about two weeks ago, and today his car was totally out of oil.

He brought it in to the place, and they said that the rear main seal was
shot, and that's why the oil was leaking. The cost to repair would be more
than the car is worth.

I'm just wondering, since this happened right after they changed the oil;
and since the rear main seal is near the oil plug: is it possible that they
damaged the seal when they changed the oil? Just seems like kind of a
coincidence that this happened right after they did an oil change.

They say that there was a problem with the manifold, which, according them,
probably heated up and caused the seal to go. (They had mentioned this
problem with the manifold in the past, but it didn't seem like an urgent
repair, so it wasn't done.) Does that seem likely?

Thanks for any input!

Neil

Steve Daniels

2008-12-27 18:36:16 UTC

Permalink

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:52:53 -0600, against all advice, something

Post by Neil
I'm just wondering, since this happened right after they changed the oil;
and since the rear main seal is near the oil plug: is it possible that they
damaged the seal when they changed the oil? Just seems like kind of a
coincidence that this happened right after they did an oil change.

I'd take it to a real mechanic and get an opinion. If they broke
the seal, you might be able to recover the value of the car from
them. You might even be able to get onto Judge Judy.

--
Real men don't text.

Refinish King

2008-12-28 02:20:53 UTC

Permalink

Post by Steve Daniels
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:52:53 -0600, against all advice, something

I'd take it to a real mechanic and get an opinion. If they broke
the seal, you might be able to recover the value of the car from
them. You might even be able to get onto Judge Judy.
--
Real men don't text.

Hello:

But if I may ask, how in the hell would they damage a rear seal, when it's
encapsulated in the rear main bearing cap?.

They couldn't do it on purpose, without doing visible damage, so your
theory, even though plausible. I think would belong in the X Files next
movie.

RK

Steve Daniels

2008-12-28 03:20:40 UTC

Permalink

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 02:20:53 GMT, against all advice, something

Post by Refinish King

Post by Steve Daniels
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:52:53 -0600, against all advice, something

Post by Neil
I'm just wondering, since this happened right after they changed the oil;
and since the rear main seal is near the oil plug: is it possible
that they
damaged the seal when they changed the oil? Just seems like kind of a
coincidence that this happened right after they did an oil change.

But if I may ask, how in the hell would they damage a rear seal, when it's
encapsulated in the rear main bearing cap?.
They couldn't do it on purpose, without doing visible damage, so your
theory, even though plausible. I think would belong in the X Files next
movie.

Well, sure, I guess. I'm not familiar with the engine in
question. But what I notice so far is that the OP is relying
upon the opinion of an oil change place, a venue not normally
noted for its mechanical acumen. I guess my real advice is to
get a second opinion from an experienced hand, one with no
interest in how the issue is resolved.

Shine the bright light of objectivity into the dark corners of
self interest, is what I'm saying.

--
Real men don't text.

Neil

2008-12-28 07:59:35 UTC

Permalink

Post by Steve Daniels
Well, sure, I guess. I'm not familiar with the engine in
question. But what I notice so far is that the OP is relying
upon the opinion of an oil change place, a venue not normally
noted for its mechanical acumen. I guess my real advice is to
get a second opinion from an experienced hand, one with no
interest in how the issue is resolved.
Shine the bright light of objectivity into the dark corners of
self interest, is what I'm saying.

Actually, I didn't say it was an oil change place. I just said he took it in
for an oil change. It was a real shop, where they've done repairs on his car
in the past.

My main concern is, as you note, self-interest, which is why I posted here,
to see if there was any way they could have damaged the seal when they did
the oil change. They say no; but I wanted to hear if it was possible.

Steve Daniels

2008-12-29 00:10:08 UTC

Permalink

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 01:59:35 -0600, against all advice, something

Post by Neil

Actually, I didn't say it was an oil change place. I just said he took it in
for an oil change. It was a real shop, where they've done repairs on his car
in the past.

I stand corrected.

--
Real men don't text.

Neil

2008-12-29 11:24:01 UTC

Permalink

Post by Steve Daniels

Post by Neil
Actually, I didn't say it was an oil change place. I just said he took it in
for an oil change. It was a real shop, where they've done repairs on his car
in the past.

I stand corrected.

Well sit down already! ;-)

dave AKA vwdoc1

2008-12-28 03:12:16 UTC

Permalink

check for leaks at the oil filter, oil cooler, oil pressure switches, oil
plug and all seals.
Look for leaks starting at the highest point, like at the valve cover, then
go down the engine.

Those oil change places usually say the oil pan gasket is bad! lol like
they know...take it to a VW specialist!
--
later,
(One out of many daves)

Post by Neil
My son has a VW Golf that's about 15+ years old. He took it in for an oil
change about two weeks ago, and today his car was totally out of oil.
He brought it in to the place, and they said that the rear main seal was
shot, and that's why the oil was leaking. The cost to repair would be more
than the car is worth.
I'm just wondering, since this happened right after they changed the oil;
and since the rear main seal is near the oil plug: is it possible that
they damaged the seal when they changed the oil? Just seems like kind of a
coincidence that this happened right after they did an oil change.
They say that there was a problem with the manifold, which, according
them, probably heated up and caused the seal to go. (They had mentioned
this problem with the manifold in the past, but it didn't seem like an
urgent repair, so it wasn't done.) Does that seem likely?
Thanks for any input!
Neil

Neil

2008-12-29 11:43:22 UTC

Permalink

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 10:44:57 -0500, NickySantoro <N

It is not possible that they damaged the seal. What is most likely is
that they failed to tighten the oil filter or the drain plug and are
lying their way out of a tight spot caused by their own incompetence.

These are the two most likely causes that I would look into. Like a
previous look for signs of oil leakage at the valve cover, oil pan,
rear main seal area. Run the engine at idle and sit there waiting
for oil dripping. Then find out where that is.
Also, if someone started the car without oil for a few moments, the
rear main and other seals will have run dry(er) and this may also have
caused the failure.

First, as for starting the car without oil, my son told me that, as soon as
the oil light went on (and he said he heard a "buzzing" sound, he turned the
engine off. We then got some oil, refilled it, and drove it to the place. So
I don't think that happened.

But, getting back to the main point (about whether or not it's the
seal)..... Spoke to my son tonight and he gave me more info. Apparently,
there was oil all over the bottom of the car. And the only thing the guy did
(from what my son saw) was show him that the oil was coming from around the
area of the main seal. But since the whole undercarriage was covered with
oil, how could he tell?

The guy did tell my son that if he cleaned the undercarriage and brought it
back, he'd look at it again "to be more sure"! (I'm not a mechanic; but
shouldn't they have wiped it down or something while they had it up there,
instead of telling my son to clean it and bring it back if he wants? Maybe
they were just so sure it was the rear main seal they didn't think it was
necessary to wipe it down?)

Anyway, that's the situation. Doesn't seem definitive at all!

Oh, and about the drain plug, that was the first thing I talked to the guy
about, about whether they just didn't tighten the drain plug enough. His
response to me was that if they didn't tighten the drain plug enough, the
vibrations would have caused the drain plug to come out completely, so that
couldn't be it. So it does seem like they don't want to take responsibility.

About six months ago my son hit a curb and brought it there for repairs. The
repaired the suspension. But then, a couple of days later, the car made a
loud noise and there was a bolt laying on the ground under the engine. My
son took it back, and the guy saw that the engine had shifted, and he
accused my son of having another accident, saying there was no way the
engine could have shifted otherwise. When my son said that he didn't, he
persisted, saying "It's OK if you don't want to admit it. But we both know
that's what happened"! Anyway, once he saw the bolt, he realized that the
bolt holding the engine to the frame (or something like that) had come out
(probably jarred loose from the original accident), and he replaced it no
charge. So this guy does have a problem taking responsibility.

As for why we keep going there, it's actually his mother's car, and she
likes the guy because her father has been going there for years and has been
happy with his service. But I would find someone else if it were up to me.

Thanks,

Neil

Doug Adams

2009-01-01 16:18:52 UTC

Permalink

O.K if the rear main seal was going bad the engine would have been leaking a
little oil all along. As time goes on with more and more miles on it, it
would get worse. You should have noticed that by an oil spot under the car.
If this problem appeared right after an oil change the oil plug was not
installed right (oil plug cross-threaded, oil plug gasket or o-ring missing,
or just plain stripped) or the oil filter was not put on right, or maybe the
dumbass jacked the car up and got under the oil pan. If he damaged the oil
pan he would have to take the pan off and repair or replace it, which would
be about the same cost as replacing the rear main seal (do you see where
this is going?) he is just trying to cover his ass. This is my opinion based
on what you have posted here! And years of doing mechanical work.

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Neil

2009-01-02 13:58:25 UTC

Permalink

Well, he has had a slight oil leak for some time. But, after the oil change,
it went from slight to losing maybe a quart a day. I would think the change
would have been more gradual if it was due to deterioration of the seal. So
you may be right.

Post by Doug Adams
O.K if the rear main seal was going bad the engine would have been leaking
a little oil all along. As time goes on with more and more miles on it, it
would get worse. You should have noticed that by an oil spot under the
car. If this problem appeared right after an oil change the oil plug was
not installed right (oil plug cross-threaded, oil plug gasket or o-ring
missing, or just plain stripped) or the oil filter was not put on right,
or maybe the dumbass jacked the car up and got under the oil pan. If he
damaged the oil pan he would have to take the pan off and repair or
replace it, which would be about the same cost as replacing the rear main
seal (do you see where this is going?) he is just trying to cover his ass.
This is my opinion based on what you have posted here! And years of doing
mechanical work.

Post by Neil
My son has a VW Golf that's about 15+ years old. He took it in for an oil
change about two weeks ago, and today his car was totally out of oil.
He brought it in to the place, and they said that the rear main seal was
shot, and that's why the oil was leaking. The cost to repair would be
more than the car is worth.
I'm just wondering, since this happened right after they changed the oil;
and since the rear main seal is near the oil plug: is it possible that
they damaged the seal when they changed the oil? Just seems like kind of
a coincidence that this happened right after they did an oil change.
They say that there was a problem with the manifold, which, according
them, probably heated up and caused the seal to go. (They had mentioned
this problem with the manifold in the past, but it didn't seem like an
urgent repair, so it wasn't done.) Does that seem likely?
Thanks for any input!
Neil

Neil

2009-01-05 18:04:15 UTC

Permalink

Follow-up to this.

The guy said that if he cleaned the undercarriage of the car, he'd look at
it more carefully. So we cleaned the undercarriage and brought it back. He
wanted us to leave it there.

He had it most of the week, and then called today and said it was fixed!
Said when he got into it he saw that it was the oil pressure sending unit,
not the rear main seal, and so he went ahead and fixed it while he had
everything apart. He said he also replaced a gasket that was there. Said he
spent a couple of hours on it, but was only going to charge for an hour.
$140 total.

So I think that's a good conclusion to the matter! It just didn't sit well
with me that he would look at it for a couple of minutes with oil all over
the undercarriage and declare it was the rear main seal. So I'm glad he
looked at it again.

Thanks to everyone here for your input!